Interview

So, how did you get into all this? How did you get started with photography?

You know, my love for photography came while I was really young, looking at family albums. On vacations we had this Vivitar 35mm camera that my mom always had and I started using that, and really got interested when I was young, seven or eight. And then,  as I got older I photographed a lot of everything, flowers and landscapes and people. Then in high school, I worked in the school newspaper and I worked for the school yearbook.

I was photo editor of the newspaper, photo-editor the school yearbook.

You caught the bug early.

Yeah, in high school, yeah. I was at almost every event. I did a lot of sports, I did portraits, and it was fun.

What year is this? Like what, not to call out your age or anything!

Ha! So, gosh, I graduated high school in 2003, so I started between 1999 and 2003.

We’re still talking film, the end of the film days.

Oh man, yeah, it was so beautiful because everything was film. You shoot an event, either that next day or that night you go to the darkroom, you develop it, you do contact sheets. You showed the editor or the other photographers, you make your edits with the grease pencil…and then, we would make small prints, either 5x7s or 8x10s. And then they would scan them. Well, they would lay out the paper that way.

Right.

While I was in high school, we got our first like digital camera before I graduated.  So our assistant principal is really into photography and he  helped facilitate that deal, it was a Fuji S-something, it was one of the first ones. Probably five megapixels or something like that. We would have that and it just blew our minds, right. We were so excited about that digital camera, but you know throughout my high school, I was all film and, you know, enjoyed it.

And then you follow this into college, you keep going.

Yeah, so it’s funny. I started college in the fall of 2003 and I actually started out as a finance major, and I had scholarships. I went to Murray State University, in Kentucky, and I started as a finance major and then quickly realized that you know, like hey, I called my parents and said, “hey, you know, I don’t want to be behind a desk for the rest of my life. I want to be a photographer.” And they’re like, “are you sure?”  and I was, yeah “I’m sure, I’m sure.” They were very supportive, reluctantly at first, maybe. But they’ve always been supportive of whatever I wanted to do in life. So I really appreciate them, but yeah, they were like, “go for it, man. As long as you’re not in school for forever, because we’re paying for this.”

Haha!

So I switched to art, and I started the fine art path in college and studied photography, and then while I was doing that, I also worked at the school, the college newspaper. So, you know, doing kind of the same thing I did in high school, doing both. I was kind of weird, because most of the news photographers were news photographers.  And the art photographers were art photographers. So I was kind of the outlier, I mean, I worked at the newspaper because I needed money. I had a job, that was a job! We still did film when I first started, only until maybe my sophomore year, I think that’s when I bought my first digital camera, I had a Canon Rebel that was 6.3 megapixels.

Mhmm.

I remember that camera, yeah. But yeah, college was great,I learned a lot, started to learn how to see and conceptualize my ideas and what I wanted to say with my artwork.

Was it a nurturing art program there?

The school was not known for their art programs. So it’s not art school at all. I had a great experience, I only had one photography teacher. I mean, that’s it! Like, we didn’t have those kinds of resources because it wasn’t an art school.

Right.

We had a nice darkroom, we got to do different formats, you know, we got exposed to different artists. I would say, the college experience coming out of that, I really started to understand how photography is about saying something that’s meaningful for you.  Why are you taking pictures, is what we would talk about. So obviously, you learn the technical aspects and things like that, but I think coming out of school, I really started to think about, pictures are important, and they’re important because you are telling a story, you have a message, and if you don’t have a story or a message, they don’t mean anything. An image is empty.

Mhmm.

I started to really formulate that thought process of what was important to me, and also how to communicate. How to communicate, you know, your feelings, what you want other people to know about you, what you want other people to get out of the work. So really just talking about art work and intention. That was the foundation for my art practice, there.

And then as you came out of school, what was the goal, to be a fine art photographer?

Haha!  Yeah, buddy. So it was a goal of trying to feed myself, right.  I was fortunate enough to have had an amazing internship through Time Inc, and I was placed at Essence Magazine.

Oh damn!

That was probably one of the best summers of my life. Because I got to go to New York, oh there’s another funny story about that, too. I was actually supposed to intern for a wedding photographer in my hometown that summer, and we had already agreed and everything, and then Essence then came up, because I didn’t originally get it, and then someone fell out, someone couldn’t do it and they called me back, and I got an interview. I showed them my portfolio, they’re like “hey, we have a job for you at Essence as one of the art interns.” So I had to call this guy back in my hometown, like, “hey man, I’m sorry, I know I said I’d do it but I can’t, like, I’ve got to go to New York to work for Essence…”

He didn’t hold a grudge, he knew, it was really good. They were a really sweet couple of photographers that I was supposed to work for, but anyway, they were really understanding. I would say that New York experience at Essence gave me a perspective of what the editorial world is like. A little bit about the art, because I met a lot of different people, but it gave me this insight of like, editorial shooters, and a lot of them did fine art, too.

Just the ins and outs, so you know, I was helping estimate shoots, we were doing a lot of stock photography stuff. A lot of producing photoshoots, I looked at a lot of photographer books. I was pretty hands on, like I was having conversations with photographers about their bids and stuff.

Wild!

It was an amazing experience. And I always liken it to family. I felt like I was with all my old aunties or something, you know. Because there were all these amazing black women in this office, together, making this wonderful publication. And then you meet people, right, so then it gave me the New York scene, I met a lot of people that I still keep in touch with. I got to photograph Kelly Rowland while I was there.

And that wasn’t even through Essence, it was just through another intern who had a friend that had an underground magazine that was like music-based. It was just really cool. You meet a lot of people. And obviously Essence, you have celebrities, but it gave me a taste of what I wanted to do, but then I realized that that’s very challenging! I needed something a little more steady in order to live. So I ended up moving back home to Illinois.

Yeah.

Moved back home with my parents, and I got a job. When I first got out, you know, I was a bank teller. Then I had some retail jobs, and then I found my way to financial services. So all the while, I’m still making photographs. I’m shooting, doing some weddings, portraits, family portraits, you know, just trying to figure out things.

When would you place the moment where you were able to really find yourself? Because the wet plate seems like it’s a big thing, seems like a big move.

I’ve been some shape or form in financial services since about 2008. All the while, I’m making photographs. And during that time I still shot for Essence. So there’s a seven-year span where I was still getting  assignments from Essence. I would do little portraits in Chicago, things like that. I did that probably up until 2014. The wet plate stuff kind of came along in 2012. I took a workshop with a guy named Dale Bernstein, who’s a photographer out of Indianapolis. And he taught me wet plate, really, I mean it was just a weekend workshop.

Yeah.

I wanted to get back to making art and I wanted to get back to this physicality of a singular art object.  I actually was really inspired by a photographer, Joni Sternbach. she’s out of New York and she makes these amazing photos of surfers, and I was like, oh, I want to do that.

We featured her on our Instagram, several years back!

So I’m looking up all the information, all about wet plate work, how it came about, and then I found Gil, who’s in Indianapolis, and when I was in Illinois, it was only like two/two and a half hours or so, so I did his weekend workshop and then I just kept bugging him with questions afterwards. And eventually, you know, you have to get all the tanks and the chemistry, and make sure you have a large format camera.

Right.

I got all of those items and,  I think it took me a few months,  started really hard in 2013, end of 2012, some 2013, and I’ve been having it as part of my practice ever since.

What was it that kept you going? Were you making art for its own sake, were you still  aiming for a career while you’re doing non-photo work?

Yeah, that’s a good question. For me, I always knew that photography was going to be part of my life, for the rest of my life. Like this is something I’m just going to do. And regardless of, if anyone likes it or buys it or, you know, if I get attention for it, I’m just going to make it. And I share it, of course, but I felt like that was like my escape, in a way, from just working a full time job.

Yeah.

Like hey, I’m working part of my brain here, all the time, and so it really helped me deal with life. But when things started happening, you know, it occurred to me, “I guess I’m better than I thought,” or people like it. And that helps give you a little more confidence to keep moving.

But especially when my son was born, I just had this real desire to make his photograph. And moreso for the historical, archival documentation of his life. And our lives, together, as a family. And that was really important to me, and also, just the communication of some of the subject matter is important. I think a lot about this idea of legacy and what we leave behind.

Okay, yeah.

So specifically with my art, I want to show that I’ve been on this earth. And show this little dot in the timeline of Rashod Taylor, and what he thought was important, and his love for his family and friends, and the commentary about America and history. It was this desire  to document and leave something behind, because really, you know, I can leave my family a car, or a house, or money, but ultimately, those things are going to go away.

Things like art or photography, for me, really stand the test of time.

What do you think changed in the past year?

Oh well, the past 10 months I haven’t worked a corporate job. I think it was one of those things where I learned that corporations…I don’t want to make too big of a generalization.  Corporations do, in most aspects, value their employees. And they know they have a workforce and they take care of people, definitely. But I also understood this idea that, regardless of who your friends are, how good of an employee you are, you are expendable.

Sure.

If you don’t hit the numbers, or if you don’t do exactly what you need to do…which I get!  I’m not bitter! Because I was in sales. I was a district manager. Basically, if you’re not where you need to be, then they say “hey, see you later.” It was actually really good. Like it wasn’t one of those things like, hey, I’m out. I think all things work together, and happen for a reason, and I’m actually really grateful for what happened.

And not being in corporate America anymore…it opened up so many more opportunities and doors because you’ve got to realize, I’m trying to do this photography life while working a 9-5, I have a family, so you know, vacations and stuff are mostly photography stuff.

Right.

You can only do so many things when you have other responsibilities. So for me, I think not working the 9-5 is, it definitely opened up a ton of other opportunities and experiences that I normally couldn’t take advantage of. I went to Paris for Paris Photo, I do multiple workshops, like I probably couldn’t do that. I just got back from Georgia, photographing for my project. So it’s like, those things don’t happen, or at least they don’t happen in big chunks while you have to provide for your family.

When that job went away, did it feel like this was the time to try this out? To try…

Oh, 100%. I thought to myself, well, this is the opportunity, it’s now or never.  Because obviously, I’ve been in the industry long enough, I could get another job I wasn’t really nervous about that. It was more of like, okay, so this happened to me, and the only things I can control are my actions and my attitude. So I was thinking, okay, I’ve been doing this photography thing for, oh gosh, what…10 plus years, right. I’ve got to do this, I’ve got to all in and just see what happens. Because in life, so many people, they don’t take risks.

For sure.

They’re risk adverse, right, so for me, I’m all about risk. Because you’ve got one life to live! I feel like things happen for people when you get out of your comfort zone. If you never get out of your comfort zone, you don’t know what’s on the other end of that. I was still scared. I had a pretty decent job, I had a pretty good living! I could do things for my family. So trust me, it was great.

I’ll never complain about corporate America. I was very happy. But even will all that, I thought about the other part of life. Having security is obviously you know, part of Maslow’s hierarchy, you know, but I felt for me, I know what that is and I know what that feels like, but I don’t want to live a life where I’m not in my purpose.

And I felt like photography is part of that.

And because you had photography, you knew there was purpose out there for you.

Oh yeah, because I wasn’t like a bum on the street, either. But like,  I know that I’m good.

Right, like some people want to leave their job, but they don’t know what direction to head. You had something else there, that you were like, maybe I could try this. Maybe this thing.

I think that’s a great point we should definitely highlight, because all those years, even when I got out of college, I still shot some editorial stuff. I still  doing things in the industry, not very much, but a little bit, right. So it wasn’t this huge jump from like I just got my website up! I’m going to be a full time photographer!

Ha!

When this happened with corporate America, I was already in museums. I already had a dealer.  I had cultivated my career enough that it wasn’t such a huge jump, because I was somewhat known a little bit.

It wasn’t a blind jump. You had some contacts.

When I stopped working at corporate, I had some time to figure things out, and I was like, yeah, I’m doing photography.

Now that you’re unbound, how does that feel?

Oh man. There’s these two thoughts, two feelings that I go through on a weekly basis.  This is so freeing, and I feel I’m more creative, I have less stress. Part of what I’m here to do, right, is make pictures.  And it’s just a different outlook that that I have, waking up everyday. It’s amazing. And I never thought I would feel this way. But then on this other side, uh (chuckles), you know, there’s this anxiety. Like, I’m a freelancer.

Right.

I go from gig to gig, I go from acquisition to acquisition, I go from sale to sale. So until you build that up, to the extent that you’re “comfortable”, I don’t know if I’ll ever…I mean, I’m going to get there at some point, but it’s always in the back of my mind, too, it’s always this fight, this creative fight, like okay I’m just going to be pure and make pictures how I want to make pictures, with nothing else tied to it.

Yeah.

I listened to that Rick Rubin book. A lot of it, I mean, I just read it at the right time in my life, and I think some of the things we all know, but I think it’s that reminder of what creative life should be. And when you’re creating, to create for yourself as your audience. It’s always good to have that reminder. It’s just opened me up to so many opportunities, because I can make a call and be like, you know what, I want to go photograph in Georgia.

Hahaha!

Okay. Well, I can maybe get down there next week! I couldn’t do that when I’m working a job, you know. I couldn’t do that and produce work that way. I’ve had more opportunities because of that flexibility. But with that flexibility comes…here’s no 401k, there’s no health insurance.

Right.

But yeah, we out here! This is freelancer life! It’s no joke, honestly it’s not for the weak.  And I think for me, I got a taste of that in financial services, because at one point I was a financial advisor. And we worked on 100% commission. So it was, you eat when you kill. I’m used to that, so I’m not like the typical person, that’s like, oh no. Because I believe, you put the work in, the time in, you will see the results.

It may take a while, but you’ll see results.

I’ve known photographers for 15-20 years, and some made it and some didn’t. And a lot of times, it was their willingness to engage in business.

Mhmm.

That people who were just pure artists who just wanted to make art, they couldn’t get anywhere because it’s a business. It sounds like you have a lot of experience with that.

Yeah! I’m glad, I’m definitely blessed to have that, because I do see friends and other artists, they struggle with that, and I think it’s really important because no one really teaches artists how to run a business. Like, where do I sign up for that, how to be an artist – the business side.

Right!

Now there’s workshops and things that you can look at, but ultimately most artists aren’t business people. And here’s the thing: if you’re an artist, you don’t necessarily have to be a business person to be successful either, there’s a way that you can leverage other people’s knowledge and education to help you run your business. But yeah, for me, I’m fortunate that I have that background, so that’s the part of my mind that’s always going, like, “oh how can I leverage this, how can I do the marketing, how can I, where are my prices at compared to the market.” Who can I network with, I mean, I feel like, me being an advisor, it really honed that hustle.

You know I’m a hustler anyway!

Hahaha!

Every day when I was an advisor, I would have to make 30 to 40 calls, every single day. And I’ve got an hour, oh and some people who were studs, they’d probably do like 60. I wasn’t even that good. it really taught me the discipline of putting in the work every day, regardless of what the results are.

Mhmm, mhmm.

You just did it, right, and then every day, I’d set 5 appointments, I had to set 4 or 5 appointments every single day, then I’m going to make it. So that mentality for me when it comes to networking and reaching out to museums, and you know, going to the things that I think a lot of photographers, we forget you know, you can have a great website, marketing strategy. But ultimately we’re humans, and humans like connection.

Yeah.

And humans thrive with one on one, or group, physical connection, right.  You’re in the same room as me, and I feel like for me, I’m good in a lot of those situations. So I try to, especially now that I’m full time, I try to go to everything. Because the thing is, you’ve got to be in the mix. You can have really good work, but they still might not…

If they don’t know!

If they don’t know you. So you’ve got to be there, you’ve got to be in the mix, and some people get put off. “I don’t feel like I should have to go network, or go to the things, and be in the places, or it’s paid.” I will say, definitely, it’s kind of pay to play. I’m just going to be real, I just look at it as an investment, right.

Right.

You know, because it’s going to cost you something, but it’s just an investment. I’m going to be in the same rooms, and once people get to know you, and meet you, they’ll probably look up your work.  That part and the business part, and just having confidence in that, and knowing that it’s really hard to make art sustainable.

I’ll just keep it real, you have to have really low expenses to make this thing work, right. Or not live in LA!

Haha!

I’m just playing.

No, you’re right! You’re 100% right!

You have to almost change up your practice because if you live in a place that costs like that, you either sell a whole lot more pictures, or raise your prices a lot. Or you have to do, like, eight things. So every photographer is like, oh, I do fine art, but I do editorial, I do commercial, I do…well because we have to make money! We have to feed ourselves and our families. So you do get in positions where you have to do other things, which is fine, but…

You do workshops, you do webinars, is teaching something you really enjoy? Is teaching part of your business practice?

Ahh, you’re getting to the root of it. I would say I do enjoy teaching. I feel like teaching, or coaching, it’s always really been a part of my life.

Hmm.

I think about in my corporate life, I was a supervisor, and then I was a manager, you know, I really enjoy helping people. I think that’s what it comes down to, for me, I enjoy helping people and I want to see people be successful because I feel like a lot of people who are willing to put the work in and want something more for their lives, if you give them the right tools and opportunity, they’re going to crush it. They’re going to be successful, right.

Yeah.

So I think for me, part of teaching, especially in the art world, is just like, I want people to be able to be successful and figure it out. So if I can give them a couple nuggets that might spark a thing, they’re like, “oh man, I remember Rashod said that, let me try this.” That’s all, I mean, that does my heart well, I did my part.

Hahaha, yeah.

I feel great about that. For me, teaching is really just a passion that I have. But then also, you know, it helps with paying the bills. And my time is worth something. Everyone has gifts, everybody is good at something. And for me, you know, I think that’s part of it, where if I have all these experiences, I want to give that back.

Yeah.

And help other people with it. And, especially with wet plate and stuff, because all the teachers I’ve had, like Gil, I always bug Joni with questions!  I just appreciate people like that and their willingness to give back and help others. So that’s part of it, too, I just want to give back and pay it forward.

Has your work changed since you’ve left corporate behind? Have you seen it bloom in any way?

I think it’s coming, you know. It hasn’t been a lot of time, so I mean, I would say Two Tone, the images with my son…I’ve been working on those for a while. I don’t know if they’ve changed as much, more so probably because he’s getting older, so he’s changing. I just got back from Chico Review, and I would say, I’m definitely changing some of the ways I photograph, in terms of…I’m a portrait photographer. Portraits are my jam.

But even incorporating more landscapes, and environmental images, details, and leveraging those, using those to help tell the story, that something that I’ve been doing lately. I’ve been more interested in landscapes and what they mean and how they can speak to me, first, and then also the viewer.

I’m always going to photograph people, but, you know, a portrait can be of anything. A portrait can be of a tree.

Right.

You don’t have to have people in your images for it to be “portrait.” So yeah, I would say, just be more open to explore and having the time and space to explore and do different, trying different things.

What is it that you think wet plate brings to your work, to your practice?

I started because I wanted to get back to making tangible pieces of work. Art that you can hold in your hands, and put on the walls. But I think also there’s this idea for me of…a lot of my work is around history and the Black American experience. And for me, I think about wet plate, which came about in 1851, but popularized in the 1860s, 1890s or so, right. So during that time in history, you know, what were Black people looked at as, right.

Right.

So slaves, and then freed, and for me, I think there’s this connection between our society back then, and then even all through the years, where it’s at now. There are these threads that are still there, I think of institutions, I think of government, I think of the incarceration system. I think of the policing system.

So all of these systems were in place, because the police started with slave patrols.  And they’d capture runaway slaves, so like, that is still happening today! And there’s the crazy thing, things have obviously gotten way better, but at the same time, when you look at the root of items and things, and where they come from, it really informs you about your present.

And how things work, in our society. So I think for me, that’s just really intriguing, and I try to make those ties in the work.

Yeah.

Obviously, it’s a more contemporary, but I make those ties, and then secondly, and I talk about this usually in my artist talks, Frederick Douglas. Frederick Douglas was the most photographed person in the 19th century, he sat for over 160 portraits. And the interesting thing about him, obviously all the accolades, abolitionist work, and all the things he did for Black people,  but he thought about photography as this source of power.

Ah!

And how being photographed that many times, was enabling him to give people a view of Black Americans with dignity, with respect, with power. You see this well-dressed black man in all these portraits, in the 1880s…and everyone else had this depiction of us, not necessarily stereotypical, but we were slaves. Essentially, we were all slaves.

Yeah, most Black people you saw were slaves.

So I’m conditioned in my mind to think of Black people as slaves in that time, and then I see someone else that is not that, that starts to change my perspective. So then, when you look at it in that perspective, it gives photography power. Because if he wasn’t able to take those portraits, you know, it may have taken longer for people to see that.  And vice versa, it also shows what we went through as Black people. So there’s this picture I show of, it’s called Scorched Back, or Whipped Peter.

Oh yeah.

So that picture was circulated around to show people in the North, the brutality and just, the inhumane…

The horror.

Yeah, so what did that do, though. That got people in the North all riled up, like “oh we’ve got to, let’s get this war…”

Yeah, shock the conscience.

Exactly. So I think photography, however you use it, can be used, and I’ll give you this last example: so then at the same time, white people used lynching postcards. The same premise. So you see these lynching postcards, you literally have Black people lynched, hanging from trees. And all these mobs of white people watching, just looking at it. And they would send those to, they would just mass produce them and send them everywhere, right. So I mean, that’s also the same, I mean we’re talking about the same thing about this idea of power.

Yeah, the power of an image, yeah.

Right, and that was there to scare the heck out of Black people. So you better not cross a white person, otherwise you’re going to end up like this, like your cousin over here.

It brings up this question: is using wet plate, maybe this is too far out, but is using wet plate also a response to the fact that there’s so much imagery? That, digitally, you can create imagery, and it loses power because of the quantity. In the way that a wet plate image is one of one, does it tie back into the idea that images have power when they’re special? When there’s something, just in terms of scarcity.

I think of painters. They’ve got it made! Photography, we’re the red-headed stepchild. The low person on the totem pole. But yeah, I think there’s, oh man, so so much with AI, and digital, and I feel, so this is my secret here, you can tell people, it’s okay!

Ha!

For me, that’s part of it. I mean, I still shoot film, too, but honestly, that’s just one small aspect of it,  I’ll always, as long as I don’t have a fire, I mean I even have it in a…some of my film is in a fire protective case. But, somebody comes to me and says, “oh Rashod you stole my picture, or this is, the pictures you have are AI,” I’m like, “nah, that’s not AI, I have the negatives!” You know, or I have this original wet plate.

Yeah.

So part of it is that, in just terms of achievability and this authenticity of photography. When a world of digital manipulation, which again, I don’t hate on digital, I still have a digital camera. You have to have them, right, and if an advertiser says, “hey Rashod, we’d love for you to shoot our ad campaign, but can you shoot it digital?”  You bet your britches I will!

Heheh.

I will get over there and shoot it with a digital camera! It goes back to this idea of power, and it is special, because it’s one of one. No one else can have it, only one, it can only be in one person’s you know, presence at once, outside of being in a gallery wall or whatever. Or obviously reproduced. I think the scarcity mindset is something, and that’s a good point, I hadn’t thought about it that much, but I think it is a part of power, too, because you think of, well who can get it. Who can get this thing that I have, well, you’ve got to have some money!

Hahaha!

You want a one of one of anything, it can be anything, a one of one, automatically makes the price shoot up.  I mean that’s it. It’s like a painting. So I think that also is part of that idea, which I struggle with sometimes, too, though. I go back and forth, because I always want my art work to be accessible.

That’s the flip side. Yeah.

And there’s this battle between accessibility and making a living as an artist.  I think about that, just because of who I am, where I come from, I want people to see my art. And have access to it. So that’s why I want the cheat codes, I’m trying to get a book out, and all those things. Because I mean I want more eyes to be able to see these images.

Right.

Without a screen, too, right. You can see them on a screen, but to actually own a piece of it. And to have it, that’s important to me, too, so I’m working to make that happen. I don’t know, maybe I’ll do a poster run or something. But making art work accessible, especially for people of color. Growing up for me, I mean we’re in middle class but it wasn’t, “hey we’re going to go to the art museum, or we’re going to go to an exhibition.” I got to see art, but I know a lot of people like me, it just wasn’t a huge part of our lives growing up.

Our parents were trying to make ends meet, we were trying to eat and live and go on vacation, and do those things, because I feel art is definitely, in some aspects, elitist. And that’s just a fact.

Because the free time is a privilege.

It is, it is, and I’m blessed, I’m grateful and so blessed in my situation because I know friends who have, you know, two, three jobs, I mean, because you’ve got to make…

You’ve got to earn it!

Go to art museums? And you have to pay? I could just look at that online or on my phone!

On my day off, I just want to hang out. Watch a game, relax. I don’t want to go outside, I don’t want to, because there’s so much work, you have to recover from work, right.

Hmmm.

So you don’t have the time, you don’t have the energy, the psychic energy to say, “let’s go engage with art today.” I just want to relax!

And I think that’s what people don’t understand, too, because a lot of people, well hey, there’s not as many people of color in the art world, things like that. Which I 100% agree with and we need to figure out how to fix that, right. Obviously. But I think, going back to my original statement about understanding where we come from in history, that’s why! You just said it, we don’t have free time!

Black, historically, we just try to make it outside the top five, one percent, whatever, like people of color, we’re working our butts off, right.

Mmhmm.

We’re trying to figure out how to survive, and we don’t have time for that. So that’s a portion of why you see this discrepancy in the art world, because it’s going to be more non-people of color, there’s going to be more white people there.

What’s the current project? What are you focusing on right now?

Oh man, so right now, Little Black Boy is the work of my son. That’s always going to be a project I’m working on, I think. I’m going to keep photographing him until he tells me to stop, essentially.

Ha!

Now, I think there might be a bookend, because Little Black Boy reads different when he’s 18. I’m trying to figure that out. He’s going to be 9 this summer, so 9-10 years old is maybe a good spot to make something, potentially. I’m always going to work on that, and then I’m working on a series called My America, been working on that for a while. It’s kind of morphed into, you know, it started more studio portraits, portraiture, and then I investigated military families with the help of my NatGeo.

Oh word.

I did a story on that, that I included in that series. And lately I’ve been into photographing plantations, and landscapes. So I think that’s where that work is  going. And I still have a batch of images I haven’t shared of family, from over the years. So that’s always something to  look at. And you know, lastly,  just interested in that, I mean that’s what I’ve been busy doing for the most part, lately.

We ask this of all of our subjects: which do you prefer: the process or the result?

Hmm. And result being the final picture that you see?

Right, right.

I would say process. I would say that, not that I love the process of developing film, which is why…or even printing, I’m not a great printer, I’ll just be honest. I use a master printer, he’s way way better than I ever could be. I’ll leave it to the pros with that. I mean I mess around in the darkroom a little bit, but that’s part of the reason why I love tintypes, because it’s a huge process, but once I’m done, I’m done, like that’s it!

Yeah.

I’ve got varnish, and that’s it. And then I have the final print. But I think for me the process is what I enjoy the most, just because I always think about the process of conceptualizing an image in your mind. So most of my images I think about in my mind, and it’s this really cool experience and feeling to have something in your mind, and to be able to execute that and bring it to life, that process. So I think for me, that whole process is interesting and that’s what I love about photography, and then also I shoot large format, it’s just a meditative process of getting the camera set up, and that’s where it happens, for me. And without process, you’re not going to have a good result anyway.

Right!

I’m going to go with the process part.

Because your equipment is so specific, does that have a particular effect on your subjects?

Oh yes, 100%. I feel that large format film and wet plate, especially wet plate, because we’re in a society that’s just go go go go go. I love to go to DR and hang out. I’ve been to Africa. People in Africa, man, that’s CP time, it’s just a whole other experience, they’re not in a rush for nothing. Like, hey this starts at 2 o’clock, okay yeah. We might get there at 2:45, you know, it’s fine. I think for me, so since we’re so go go, and I gave the examples of just places that are just so different and mellow, I think it just calms people a little bit. If I’m not in a rush, where I’m like, we only have 2 minutes, I’ve got to make a picture…

Right.

I think it brings people’s anxiety down, maybe a little bit, because most people don’t like to get their photograph taken. And it gives you time to talk to them, and tell them about yourself and let them talk to you. You get this whole interaction and dialogue going, moreso than if it’s just this quick, bam bam bam. And it helps me, too, because I still get butterflies when I photograph people.

Sure.

And a lot of people aren’t used to it, so it catches them off guard. And I just don’t think they’re as guarded, they still could be guarded, for sure, people are still guarded, I just think it’s different. Like, oh there’s this big old camera, this is interesting, okay. I’ll relax.

Yeah.

So yeah, I definitely think it plays into the process.

That brings up one more question.

I’ve got time!

You’ve been making photographs for a long time. I know, for myself, when I started, I was using Polaroid, like in the early-mid 2000s.

Hmm.

And people were curious but into it. And I’ve noticed over time as photos have become more ubiquitous, people don’t want to get their picture taken as much. Have you seen that change over decades, as everyone’s getting their picture taken? Or for you has it always been, in the setting that you’re creating, people are a little hesitant?

I think a lot of that, yes. I would agree overall, people are more hesitant to get their picture taken, because of social media, TMZ.  people are guarded, especially if they don’t know you. They’re going to be guarded, what are you going to use it for, where’s it going to be at. And then everyone wants to put on their best face, like, “get my good side, hey.”Which is fair, I get that.

Yeah, it’s not wrong.

Right. But I think two things: you have to be able to gain trust with a subject, even if you don’t know them, even if they’re a stranger. You have to be able to gain trust with them. And that kind of breaks down those barriers. And then two, I would say, and I mean, you may agree with me, obviously there’s been a resurgence in analog processes and film and wet plate.

For sure.

And all these other processes. And I think with that, people are curious. So if I show up, if I’m on the street, and I make pictures, like when I do my workshops, sometimes we’ll go out in the street and I’ll make pictures, right. So if I’m in the street with 4×5 or 8×10 film camera, it’s going to draw attention!

Yeah!

And people are just intrigued, “oh my heavens, those are one of those old-timey cameras? And I’m like, “yeah it is!” So when you shoot with big cameras like that, it definitely breaks those barriers and helps you gain trust a lot quicker, because you’re not just an everyday photographer. You’re somewhat a professional in their eyes, because you have this old camera, so obviously you know what you’re doing. You’re not a creep.

Haha, right.

Because if I just had a little digital camera, and I’m like, “hey can I take your photograph…I’m a photographer”…they’re like, “ehhh.” But if I go up with this big old camera, like “hey man, would you mind if I take your photograph?” I can still look the exact same and they might consider it!

Right.

They’re like, “oh that’s cool,” because you’re intrigued by the equipment. If you have things that people are not as accustomed to seeing, there’s always this curiosity about it, which obviously for me it works to my advantage because I could get people to sit for my picture. I can get people to sit for a 4×5 or 8×10 setting on the street.

That wouldn’t work digitally.

Or in the studio, but if I’m just like, “hey man, I’m a photographer, I’ve got an iPhone, hey, could I get a quick picture?”

Haha!

They’re like, “uhhh I’m good, I don’t trust that.” That’s what I would say.

I think that about does it, that should do it!